Vancouver Hack Space

Paul VE7PXG

• newly qualified amateur
• group organizer
• let's introduce ourselves

David: VE7MDE

• 20 years
• sputteringly active
• FM radio, no longwave antennas

Sean

• studying to get certified
• build a radio, bounce a signal off the moon

Farell VA7FSE

• HF setup
• can't use it, too much inteference
• helped with fireworks
• really quiet

Ian (missed callsign)

• license 25 years ago
• lapsed
• got year ago, done nothing with it since
• keen to get back into it
• want to do everything, learn CW, build a kit

Andrew (VA7HEX)

• VECTOR training course last year
• struggled to connect
• simple radio, BaoFeng
• excited to get a repeater working
• VECTOR has a weekly network
• VECTOR great organization, focused on emergency response
• large gap in experience between new people and most members

Ian

• same thing I noticed at North Shore radio club
• big gap in experience between beginners and most
• hard to get people up to speed
• so much protocol and buzwords

Andrew

• did a lightning talk here at a SHH
• bit of a turn off to hackers: non-anonymity, can't use codes, many controls on behaviour

Real advantage:

• falled back so much
• bands quiet
• used to be many people acting as guardians of the air waves
• CB, lots of guys clatter all over it
• rise of digital, opened up

Paul

• over the last week since I sent out first message, about 20 people responded privately or openly.
• some couldn't come due to other commitments
• definitely interest to set up another radio club, our own
• VHS ARC is my suggestion
• doing my training, told people at VECTOR that bunch of people have gone through the course
• VECTOR would like us to set up our own club and affiliate with them
• show up at their field days
• work with them at symphony of fire
• encourage others to partake in hobby of amatur radio
• told them that our goal was to hold workshops and get people qualified
• VECTOR: good, if we can help you let us know
• if you need qualified examiners, we have members who are willing to do it for no cost
• they're realy enthusiatic

• Paul (other Paul) manages apartment block (15th and Fir, could put repeater on its roof
• people are keen to be involved
• first meeting: wanted to see if anyone would show up
• next meeting: do on Wed night
• time when VECTOR does their net
• people bring their radios if they have them
• if they don't, that's fine too
• can practice calling in to the VECTOR net

• Sean: you can still use the radio even without a license
• under direct supervision of any one of us
• I don't know where else to go from here
• other ideas: you may have seen my email regarding lotteries money
• not as difficult as people think
• put in the proper application
• one of the women involved with VHS, Ifny, definitely knows her way around
• I am involved in another non-profit that gets $30K a year from lotteries
• before I got involved, it was costing them $6000 for audits
• figured out you could get a letter from an accountant that said everything was fine for less than $500
• that's a way to get seed money
• talked to Hackery, they get Ham Radio equipment often
• start looking out stuff for us
• looked into repeater and what it takes to set one up
• doesn't look hard
• few radios, buy them from people who have built them

- Farrell:

• the easiest way: equipment often gets obsoleted
• even tube equipment
• reason it gets thrown out, channels keep narrowing
• companies to narrow things down just replace the equipment with transistorized stuff
• usually find if you go to companies and say you are using it for a ham repeater you can get it for nothing
• as long as they know it won't end up sold
• often nothing wrong with old equipment, just needs a module to turn down the deviation
• I'm really keen
• I'm one of the people who made a mobile truck
• last year I built a few direction finding for fox hunting
• the idea is to hide a little transmitter once a month
• take the mobile truck, when everyone gets there, have a barbecue
• to get people excited, it's very easy to build a simple receiver
• once you get into that, it bites you, you can get you license and build your own
• 3-4 Watts on shortwave you can go all the way around Vancouver

Sean:

• contest meant for Hams in BC, people to contact Hams in BC, and for Hams in BC to contact other Hams

Farrell:

• if you get involved in contesting in Ham, really serious contests, some people almost give up their lives
• I've been involved in that, people setting up stations,
• try to talk with as many people as possible
• nowadays especially with power lines, you've got to get out of the city, there's too much noise
• it's sort of died
• there's still satellites up, HamSat organizations
• really cool to intercept weather satellites
• once you start playing with RF stuff, it's really easy, nice and easy, it's just a way of doing things
• software radios, I'm amazed. Just a little USB stick and you have a spectrum analyzer

Sean:

• one I saw on kickstarter, was a software radio
• from something small to something ridiculous

[ED: was it this one? https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1085541682/bladerf-usb-30-software-defined-radio?ref=live] [ED: nope, this one: https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/mossmann/hackrf-an-open-source-sdr-platform ]

• supposed to cover everything

Farrell:

• on deal extreme they're 7-8 dollars
• what happened with that business is pre-digital TV
• people were making these sticks to receive TV data
• then that market sort of disappeared

they just open sourced the coding for the receiver

Paul:

• radio choice for those guys at VECTOR are those handheld Kenwoods
• they have GPS location on them
• showed us a display, 50-100 radios that had them on
• people are out there, what they are saying to each other I don't know
• you could actually track where they were
• one of those things, Farrell knows about this, being used during the Celebration of Light
• th

David:

• when I'm traveling to Alberta, I check all the nodes along the way
• some of them answer, some of them don't
• I've used it for emergencies

Farrell

• there's not easy access to where the repeaters are

Ian:

• list on the North Shore amateur club
• get a booklet, on the back is all the repeaters

offset, private/public

Andrew:

• there are a number of pages on the web with reasonably up to date information

David:

• you can buy a CD for $30 that has all the mapping, all the offsets
• you can program it for your travel plans
• do it for every carrier along the route

Farrell

• project to put the repeaters into Google Earth

Andrew:

• surprised if there wasn't a Google Mashup already

David:

• like I said, I have a CD, it's got all the stuff there
• a lot of it is on the Internet

[crosstalk]

Sean:

• for Ham stuff, all the pages look like the were made right at the start of the web
• I've been trying to find information on how to build a radio
• it's like that gap you're talking about, it's all aimed at people who have been doing it for 30 years
• not people just getting into it
• after several days of searching, I found "build a simple FM transmitter"
• but it was a Make project on how to build it with the fewest components possible
• for plugging your iPod into for your car
• hard to get information to get off the ground

David:

• it's like there's an old community of Ham guys
• there's an exclusitivity to it
• you got your chops by knowing all the vernacular, acronyms, all that stuff before you ever got near a radio

Ian:

• learning CW was almost like a right of passage

Farrell:

• I struggled for 2 years before I could get my callsign
• only about 1978 they eased the restrictions
• couldn't get a Ham license without Morse

Paul

• for those of you who have taken the test, I was amazed
• if I'd known it was this simple to qualify for your basic
• I believe they've made it simple because people aren't doing it anymore
• my guess is that there are elements of the government who don't want people using it so they can sell off the amateur bands

Farrell:

• very strong amateur radio union delegation that goes to ID conference
• struck down age restriction
• people pon air discipline people

David:

• don't really monitor
• self regulation, complaints

Farrell:

• biggest concern is that you screw up some commercial interest
• they're paying for that spectrum
• we don't pay for it
• amaeur allocation is bigger than any other allocation
• if you don't use it, you lose it
• above 2 gigs, enormous spectrum available for amateurs
• we don't use it
• sad things, industry watches Ham experimentation and then they want them

Paul:

• Ty threw that up there for us

[referring to LED sign marque scrolling radio club name]

Farrell:

• with the call sign, I;m not sure of the formalities

Paul:

• let's decide
• next meeting, VHS ARC member form, collect $10 from everyone
• you're qualified to apply for club callsign

-0 under your name, you're responsible

• anyoine using that call sign, it comes back to you
• try for meeting this Wednesday

Farrell:

• not sure if I can make it

Andrew:

• VECTOR net is at 8pm

Paul:

• plan for that
• Wed nights for now
• take awhile to sort schedules
• dozen or more, can move around

Farrell:

• what is freq?
• may have to join later

Andrew:

• repeater frequency
• 145.170 MHz
• 600 minus offset
• no tone

Paul:

• Telephone Pioneers Amateur Radio Club maintain the repeater
• on the "Boot"
• for those of you not from Vancouver, the Boot is the Telus building at Boundary and Kingsway
• building on Burnaby side has step terraces
• VECTOR bounces off mountains, their setup is at E-COMM

Farrell:

• used to have a radio at John Oliver

Paul:

• we should take advantage of that as soon as possible

Sean: UBC Amateur Radio club is trying to start up again

Joe: (VA7JBO) arrives

Paul:

• problem: run by student
• after Daniel leaves, it will die again
• John Oliver has possibilities
• especially if they are going through hassles about ripping the school down
• I'm an alumni of there
• really interested in other stuff we talked about

Farrell

• first school to be fully wifi
• get them motivated

Andrew:

• problem has never been availability of equipment, it's availability of people
• it's why VECTOR training
• need influx of people
• need to keep people engaged
• Joe, you mentioned on mailing list that you've been to these nets, and that they are boring, nothing is happening on them

Joe:

• never actually checked in
• for one, goes way too fast
• two, boring as hell

David:

• that's the think about Ham Radio
• what's the length of your antenna
• how's your signal strength
• nice talkin' to ya

Joe:

• if you have a limited number of people, it's going to be boring
• used to be a guy out in Delta, kind of pissed me off
• had an emergency, his emergency was that he had too much recycling

Paul:

• what could we do to make it interesting?
• I'm going to chair this
• Farrell, then Joe

Farrell:

• there needs to be a network
• if you create these networks where people get on to chat, the advantage is that there's always someone available close to a telephone
• emergency support if needed
• problem if you have a network that is monitored, people are very quick, just announce their checkin and leave
• nobody is allowed to chat about what projects they are working on

Joe:

• I know of at least four nets that are active right now
• Burnaby repeater on Monday night
• North Van repeeater on Tuesday night
• VECTOR on Wednesday night
• 9am Rainbow Valley net on North Van repeater
• cordial enough
• I have no interest in getting a biggger 2 meter radio
• these (handhelds) work just fin everywhere I've taken them
• basically, the VHF bands are boring

David:

• one of this things is, it's just one channel
• whomever has got it, has got it
• if you tend to talk on and on, block the channel
• that's why these protocols were developed
• keep range on topic and time

Andrew

• keep in mind repeaters have a built-in time limit
• fundamentally, built around emergency response
• without emergency, quite limited
• intrigued with Farrell's idea around direction finders
• cool idea for contest
• any organization has trail off
• people excited the first time, either they will engage or they won't
• big thing: communication strategy
• I think VECTOR struggles with it
• have trouble contacting people, i.e. mailing list
• need an influx of people, and need to engage people currently there
• some people will be more technically inclined and want to build a receiver right away
• I don't have the skill set for that; I'd like to build on what I have before I make that investment

David:

• don't you need an advanced before you can build one?

Paul

• we have a few people with advanced qualifications

Farrell

• I've done this for too long already and I've become very blase
• as a non-amateur, there's nothing stopping you from going in and buying equipment
• it's switching it on, powering up and transmitting that's the restriction
• if you want to do that in the amateur radio band, on a regular basis

[missed a bunch of talking; too much crosstalk]

• in South Africa we used to have what they called Desert Island [?]
• build something to get you off a desert island
• could be anything from flashing light, etc
• create a community of people who actually get to know each other

David::

• talking to Sean about website
• most guys have a heavy hardware background
• so our infusion of software into it could be a real boost

Sean

• as far as retaining people or getting people interested,
• to me that's just a problem of what project we're going to work on for the next 2 months
• figure out instructino
• fox hunt thing
• or set something on mountain
• crowdsource instructions on how to build a radio
• for next 2 month, have a goal
• get picture from a weather satellite
• or contact a ham radio satellite
• keep having idea
• let's do this, let's do this
• we all have enough ideas that can keep us going for next year or two
• if we keep doing things, people will bee "that was really cool," I want to be around the next time they do that

Farrell:

• there's a wide range of projects
• radio beacon on balloon, look for where the device comes down
• quadcopters
• carry up a little parrot repeater on quadcopter
• take it up high
• repeats your message
• I'd like to experiment with that

[too much noise]

• track myself, see where I've been
• often I'll get a call […] this morning
• I only get it 2 hours after
• I have access to ham radio
• like to build tracking beacons
• put the beacon on the car

Andrew:

• like to put out a danger point
• there's all this equipment out there, we could put up a receiver
• what I'm worried about is that someone will engage with that, spend a great deal of time on that, and then nobody will use it
• it's that sunk cost that I am worried about
• so I think a structure where people rotate through is important
• no-one becomes the sole keeper of the flame
• that sucks
• everyone's been there, people move on and get tired of it

Paul:

• VHS has a process in place
• no gatekeeper
• if people walk away, it won't shut down
• looking at Radio Amateurs of Canada, to get insurance, just have to be registered society
• under VHS as a registered society we can get this
• if we want to apply for gaming moneys
• not as onerous as people think
• 1-2 years down the road before money comes
• not a separate organization, as a subgroup of VHS
• send an email to announce wed meeting
• wed night is a craft night
• check with people to ensure craft night is not impacted
• send out email, suggested donation of $10 for radio portion of VHS
• Farrel: lock down VE7VHS as soon as possible before someone else locks it down
• still available
• simple process, fill in form

Joe:

• just log online, register club
• toggle address as private
• don't publish your address
• caveat: kind of broken, got Oracle errors

Paul:

• email someone at VECTOR if problems
• initial fee of $60 to register
• under assumption if under club
• I don't know what else we want to talk about
• doesn't help to have meeting drag on
• try to get people out of here

Sean:

• have to know about low cost equipment

Paul:

• protocal for packet radio developed in BC
• let's see how these BaoFeng's work out

Ian:

• had it tested at North Shore

Paul:

• regularly on Ebay for 10 for $250
• could have them for $25

David::

• where did everyone get theirs?

Everyone:

• amazon, ebay

Joe:

• pick up this, mike, and

Ian:

• Burnaby swap meet coming up

Paul:

• Joe posted about that

Joe: Baofeng pretty good

Paul:

• bought them, soaked me $20 for programming cable
• send me software
• bought cable and software,
• Ty and I found PDF to switch programmer to English

Joe:

• piece of software called CHIRP

Andrew:

• hear that cables require specific drivers

Paul:

• software I got good for Kenwoodl, Baofeng, Yaosu, compatiable with all
• nicely dressed up excel

Ian:

• posted a link on your thread
• http://www.miklor.com/uv5r/
• the site for all BaoFeng stuff
• download all software

Farrell:

• wiki for information
• i.e. BaoFeng information
• saying to youngsters that there is a Jamboree on the internet
• don't have to be scouts
• advanced amateur
• australia
• coming up in Sept
• away camping
• set up a proper mobile station like that
• like what VECTOR does with their bus
• have to deal with city to get bus out
• like to have my callsign on the truck
• fun event

Andrew

• can anyone edit wiki or do you need to be a VHS member?

Paul

• anyone can get it
• are you volunteering?
• also, why aren't you a member?
• we'll talk about that after

Andrew

• happy to scribe the first few meetings
• important to have groundwork and history so that people releasing it's a living thing that is happening
• there's a lot of excellent ideas, but if they don't make it out of this space and out of this group, it's not going to happen
• we'll sort it out

Paul

• all info going up there is good

Joe:

• off topic
• open source radio programming software
• http://www.repeaterbook.com/ tells you where repeaters are
• also have an App for it too
• how many people are interested in doing HF?

Ian:

• eventually

Joe:

• how many people can do HF?

Andrew:

• need Basic with Honours qualification right?

Paul:

• missed it, need to rewrite exam

Farrell:

• who has HF gear?

Paul:

• you're the only one

Farrell:

• happy to bring the radio here
• insist on a mic and a key to disconnect it
• don't mind setting up antenna

Paul:

• let's hold off on that until we can talk numbers
• 20-25 people, VHS members
• then we can turn around and say and get a table to be able to leave equipment here and secure it
• have a locker, lock it up
• issue right now, we don't know if we're going to get an extension on our lease
• and they've sold the building
• once that is sorted, we can make a proposal to get an antenna on the roof, or next to the building
• other thing: Paul manages apartment , 15th and Fir apartment.
• he'll let us put a repeater on here
• have John Oliver school radio station to check out
• callsign is gone, some guy in Cranbook or something has it
• anything else to add?
• put out email to the general list
• let everyone know we're meeting on Wednesday
• get non-members as members
• 20 people emailed very interested
• keep on building from there
• put together a list of licensed versus non-members
• sit down and see resources for Advanced qualifictions
• lots of people have an interested

Joe:

• handy for going overseas
• get your Morse code qualification
• if you don't have your Morse, can't operate outside of Canada and US

Paul:

• little intimidated
• like to
• bring radios on Wednesday
• when we get the club callsign

Andrew:

• before people dash off, how many people are comfortable editing the wiki and putting up their project ideas?
• send them to me, and I'll put them in

Paul:

• send emails to signguy
• continue on non-members list

Joe:

• members only list
• something on fire

Paul:

• using VHS in relation to amateur radio club, do you object?
• everyone thought it was a good idea

Joe:

• LED Marque is generating interference
• 145.350 MHz frequency

Paul:

• we'll make sure that the LED sign is turned off

Andrew:

• has anyone tried radio from inside the building?

[General chatter about the cause of the interference and testing the LED sign.]